Don't Be Afraid to Be Great

Brent Kelly:

"Don't be afraid to be great!" wise words from my guest on today's podcast. Jim Koster is Vice President of Sales for Property Casualty at TRICOR Insurance, and Jim has a great perspective in working with an agency with 34 locations, over 200 people. How do you get the proper mindset and build the right culture to get the growth that you want? Enjoy the podcast. It's a great one. Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. My name is Brent Kelly. I am your host and it's my pleasure to be with you today. It's even a greater pleasure to have a guest with me today, Jim Koster, who is the Property and Casualty VP of Sales at TRICOR Insurance in the wonderful state of Wisconsin. I'm going to get to Jim and some of his background, learn more about TRICOR frustrations, challenges, successes. He might just knock your socks off today.

No pressure, Jim, but it's very possible. So before I get to Jim, officially, as always, I want to mention the purpose of the podcast. The mission of the podcast is to help educate and power and equip independent insurance agency leaders to become their best version possible. And I also want to mention in the terms of best version possible, we are launching our next series in January, so it's not too late if you're listening to this shortly after the release. But the Best Version Possible Fast Track, this is our 90-day process and roadmap for independent insurance agencies. That includes producer training, account manager training, as well as sales leadership training, all integrated together. So go to sitkins.com/fasttrack to learn more about that. Alright, with that, let's get into the podcast and my interview with Jim Koster. Jim, first and foremost, welcome. I know you're a listener. Thank you for that, first of all. But welcome to the Agent Leader podcast.

Jim Koster:

Thank you, Brett. It's a pleasure to be here and looking forward to our conversation.

Brent Kelly:

Wonderful. Well, again, I've known Jim now, I don't know exactly, I should do my exact research, but I would say probably somewhere around five years, right? As far as we first connected and you started working with our organization and you were down in Fort Myers for some of our sales leader training and producer training and things. And then we just reconnected again in person in Tampa. And between all that, a number of coaching calls and conversations and emails and all that good stuff. But I would like to, if you could, Jim, just share a little bit of a background on you and kind of your role and how you got there, and then also could share with the audience a little more about TRICOR and what you're all about as an agency.

Jim Koster:

Sure, thank you. So I've been in the insurance industry for the past 20 years and spent the first six of that in a production role, built a book of approximately 400,000, so not huge, but not tiny either. So I enjoyed that, but always wanted to get into a leadership role. And so in 2009, I took on a leadership role with Westland Insurance, started managing a group of producers. We were part of an acquisition then by TRICOR in 2015. And I continued that leadership role. It's been a great fit at TRICOR, provided a lot of opportunity, not just for me, but for the others that were part of that acquisition. And currently my role, as you said, is the vice president of sales for our property casualty. So I'm involved in both commercial lines and personal lines. TRICOR is located mainly in Wisconsin. We're made up of 34 separate locations. We've also have offices in Iowa, Illinois, and recently Michigan. We're approaching revenue of 50 million and we have approximately 260 full-time employees. Our growth strategy, which that's the goal for all of us to grow, is to go forth, have a strong focus on organic, but we also have a targeted acquisition as part of our strategy as well. So that's a little bit about us.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah, it's a great overview and I am sure we'll get into this in some of the conversation we have today, Jim, but I was thinking about that. You mentioned, you said 34 locations, right? And you think about this combination of acquisitions or organic growth. And again, there's a lot of agencies out there that are doing that and doing both successfully, but it's kind of like you just keep bringing people in and it's just how do we get them to fit culturally and to buy into our things and the behaviors that go into that. And so there's a lot that goes into that, and I think your success and your growth you said approaching 15 million is very, very impressive for lots of reasons. Jim, for you personally, you mentioned how many, 260 people, I mean, it's a large organization. How many people at this point, when you think about commercial and personal lines in the property and casualty, are you leading or responsible for today?

Jim Koster:

I work directly with 13 commercial lines producers. We have, I think 29 total. I work with some of them, but Bart Straka, who's our president, is also involved in the commercial lines area. He works with the rest, and that includes a division of transportation specialists. Also recently taken on the role of working with our first line sales team, and we have a group of 38 personal risk managers, or that's our name or title for our producers. And then I also work with two sales managers in that area as well as one team lead.

Brent Kelly:

So you got different people in different places and different, I mean, you've got a lot going on. That's why I'm so glad to have you on here to share some of your observations. And I know you're going to bring a ton of value to the audience, some of the things you've accomplished, and actually you'll share a lot of value with talk, get right into it. Some of the frustrations and challenges, and I always joke, Jim, I go to a room of agency leaders or producers, it doesn't really matter, agency professionals. And I'm like, how many of you have a frustration? It's like, where do we start? There's always frustrations and things we're trying to improve. I want to start off by asking you this, and again, maybe pick your favorite, Jim, I don't know, or your top one, but when you think about some of the challenges or frustrations, this could be you in your role, maybe the organization, what would be a top or key challenge you guys are dealing with right now and how are you going about addressing it or how have you gone about addressing it?

Jim Koster:

Yeah, for sure. Excuse me. I've heard this from others that have been on the call and you mentioned that the meeting that we had recently in Florida, they talked a lot about this at the mastermind, and one of our challenges has been finding quality producer candidates. It's easy to identify what that person might look like, what skills we want, et cetera. But actually finding those individuals can be a challenge. And we've recently, or I guess it's probably been maybe six months or so, we hired a recruiter. We identified that we needed to take a more proactive approach, and so we hired this individual and she, along with our entire HR team, is taking a more proactive approach into recruiting the type of talent that we're looking for. So that's one aspect of it. And it's been successful. In fact, at the moment, we recently brought on one commercial producer or two others that we're ready to hire, and we have three that are ready to bring on their personalized area.

But along with that, we needed to make sure that we could help these individuals be successful. And so we've invested in a training and development team. We have an individual that is leading that, and we've made big strides in developing a more consistent onboarding process, putting together more development opportunities for our existing staff. And so really it's that two-pronged approach. One, how do we get the right people in? And then how do we help ensure their success as we move forward? Now, certainly we still have work to do in both areas, but we're excited about the people that are on that team and the effectiveness that we're having so far.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah, that's fantastic. I love that. Again, you're kind of going through both of it. One of those where some people are, maybe we've got the training and development, but we don't have the people to train and develop or, okay, we're going to go out and we're going to find the people. Then they get there and they go, now what? And obviously there's a lot that's involved in that for sure. And I think it's interesting, the analogy I use oftentimes, and I'm sure if you're a regular podcast listener, maybe you're tired of me mentioning this, but I just think it makes a lot of sense. You think about college athletics, you've got the transfer portal, you've got NIL money out there. You've got people trying to get your recruits and you've got to have a sales pitch why you're a place to go. It's very similar in the insurance agency space as well.

And so I think something you said, Jim, it's interesting, and maybe get your take on this. I know you've got a recruiter that's kind of heading this up, but see a lot of producers that become leaders, right? They've grown a book of business, you had a book of business and you've had some success. And then we get to leadership. The idea, at least in my mind, is very similar for a leader looking to fill a role, is that we've got to have a compelling vision, identify exactly the type of personality or the kind of person in the role. We want be able to have our points of differentiation, just like we talk about with producers. So again, maybe I'll just, I don't mean to throw you a curve ball here, maybe this isn't, but when you think about that with TRICOR, what's been some of your unique value proposition or points of differentiation or something like that, whatever term you want to use that goes, this is a pretty cool place to be. And let us tell you why. I mean, you don't have to give me, I know there's probably a hundred, but maybe just give me maybe one or two, Jim that jump out at you.

Jim Koster:

Sure. I guess first I can speak from experience having been with another agency, being part of an acquisition, and then what I learned and saw personally and have experienced personally within TRICOR, so I can speak to that. The other is really the training and development plan and that we've got a specific department that is dedicated to providing those resources and putting together those plans to communicate that we're invested in helping you succeed. It's not really just about bringing you on board and then good luck. I remember how I started. It was, "here it is, here's the phone book, start calling." And those days are gone, right? You don't get the great people that way. And then the other piece of it is that not only is there some initial training, but we're also working on some development. So as you get further along in your career, what is it that we're going to be able to provide that can help you grow, help you develop? And so that has been very beneficial for us.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah, I love that in so many ways. I think the question I wrote down, I mean this is just as an agency leader listening to this, is if someone that you were wanting to bring onto your team, or certainly those that are currently on your team before they think about leaving, right? It's a tough world out there, is if they ask you this question, how will you develop me over the next X amount of years? Or what's my path? I mean, again, people need to live up to that, right? There's individual accountability, but I believe in the phrase that leaders see before and they see more others see before and they see more than others, meaning that you've got to be able to paint a compelling vision, and this is the path that we see for people like you and where it goes and they go, oh, okay, I see where this may go for me.

And again, you at TRICOR, being able to provide those resources is critical. I do have a shameless plug here. We also want to make sure we do at Sitkins is to help empower that as well where we've got our ongoing programs and they continue to plug in. So again, all kidding aside of that, we believe in what we do and know you guys have used our resources in different ways and wanting to continue to do that, but there's an investment cost to that both in time and money. And not all agencies do that. And so again, part of that is just to say, listen, we are a development and growth organization, so to do that, we're going to help you develop and grow. It says a lot about TRICOR. I want to ask you, Jim, about what you guys do really well, and I'm sure, I know there are a number of things that you can answer here.

Maybe this is my corny phrase, what's TRICOR superpower? But what is it that you do really well and you think about successes you have all achieved as an organization, or maybe it's your department, and then here's my second part of this. How have you sustained it or how do you plan on sustaining that? I think it's one thing to be successful in something and just think about going back to sports. It's one thing to win a championship winning that second one's really hard. So what are successes you've had at TRICOR and how are you going about to replicate or maintain that success moving forward?

Jim Koster:

Sure. If I could back up one second. Absolutely. If that's okay. We were talking about painting that picture, and so we talked about how we bring you on board and what we can do. The other thing that we have at TRICOR is that we've got a number of seasoned or successful producers that have developed books of over a million, $600, $700,000 that have been with the organization for 20, 25 years. And to be honest, being able to point to not only the longevity, but the level of success that our producers have been able to attain is also completes that picture that here's how you get going, here's how we help you in the middle, and then here's what that can look like at the end. So I wanted to make sure and add that. But in terms of success, I would say that it's really some of the more basic things. And I say basic because they were some of the initial things that we pulled from the Sitkins program. And so the two, I would say, and I know you asked for one, but the greatest success they fit together is really the high performance teams and the Green Zone. And so this whole concept of having the same goals but different roles. And so what we've seen happen in that is that the relationships with our account management team, regardless of division with our producers, that that relationship has grown. It's gotten stronger.

It's freed up time for our producers to be in the Green Zone, but it's also freed up time for our account managers not being bothered by the agents every other minute to accomplish the work that they need to do in terms of having a solid continuation process, et cetera. And so stronger relationships have been part of that. But the other results have been that our retention continues to be in the mid-nineties. And from a new business standpoint, we've grown our new business year over year each of the last three years. And right now our organic growth in commercial lines is trending over 10%, which is the first time we've been in double digits. And I think that the high performance teams, the Green Zone approach, and our people obviously are really a big part of that. How do we continue that? Is that it's something that we talk about regularly. It's something that we communicate monthly as we share what our results were for the month and giving credit to if successful, why we were successful. And those are key components of it. The other part is that it is part of our hiring and onboarding process. We start early talking about what that relationship looks like for our producers to understand the value of having that in the other way, our account managers as well. And so we start out in the beginning to get them going, and that's part of how we continue that moving forward.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah, I want to go a little deeper in this because I think those are important points. And I know I talk about those concepts quite a bit in the podcast, but some people are probably like, what's a Green Zone? So I want to get a little deeper in that, Jim, with you kind of what that means and how you all see it and use it at TRICOR. But I think it comes back a little bit too, and I appreciate you referencing the fact that the experienced producers that people can see on there, that's a huge part of culture. And we all know this culture is a, it's a buzzword, but it's got a lot of different definitions really. I mean out there in the world of what does that mean? But certainly with the organization, the size of TRICOR, it takes a while, a long time to really get the culture level that people want.

But here's the great thing about culture. It doesn't mean it can't go down, but once you build it up, there's a model in place just like people seeing producers that have been doing a certain thing for a while. Oh, that's kind of how we do it here at TRICOR. And so it's really neat to hear, Jim, that newer people come in, they're already entering the fact of, oh, there's this Green Zone and HBT, and this is how we do things here versus having to recreate everything. So I guess what I want to get your thoughts on this a bit deeper Green Zone, and again, for the audience that's never heard this, if you're a first time listener, I'll keep it really simple. The Green Zone is when producers are doing stuff that creates sales results-based stuff, and that's as simple as I can make it. And in fact, we always joke that the definition of a producer and whatever title you want to give, but a producer at heart is to produce.

It's one who produces, right? So part of the Green Zone is we see so often that producers are spending half or way less in some cases actually in the results or slash Green Zone. They're trapped by activities and services and everything else that goes on. And what happens, Jim, this is where I want to get your feedback, is that we'll have a producer could even go through a camp and they would go, man, I love this. I want to get in the Green Zone. Let's fire it out. I'm in the Green Zone. Well, then there's a follow up to that. How do I do that? I've already got all this stuff. How do I unpack some of those things? And it's really important to note that the services and reactive things, this isn't a dump off to a service team that's already overwhelmed in many cases.

It's understanding that we've got to be much more intentional how we communicate, and as you said, Jim, same goal, different roles, and having that appreciation, that respect and that trust that both of our roles are challenging, and we both need to be accountable to certain things. And I really love what you said, and I want to hear more about this, is that when the producers are in the Green Zone, what we typically have talked about in the past is like producers get in the Green Zone and go sell. What I love what you said is reinforced is that when the producers get in the Green Zone, the service team in their own way also gets in the Green Zone because the producers stop bothering them so darn much with things that they're already taken care of. So how have you seen that, I mean at TRICOR, because I guess it varies by agency or by location, so to speak, but what transformation have you seen in that where there's been more intentional communication and there's been more of an appreciation and respect of trust in some ways? Jim, at TRICOR?

Jim Koster:

Yeah, I would say that it's something that we've seen that we had to have some patience with. It doesn't happen overnight. And on both sides of that equation, the service side as well as the producer side, we've got veterans that have been used to operating in a particular way. And so as we challenge them to try this high performance team meeting, first, we got good at doing that, and then we challenged them to actually live kind of what the outcome or what the hope of what that provides is they start gaining some confidence in the people that they work with and understanding that, well, the sky doesn't always cave in because I'm not available or I am actually getting more done because I'm not bothering my account manager every minute of the day if I come prepared. And so we've seen the preparation for those meetings improve. We've seen growth in those areas, and that's kind of the transformation. And you can see it, you can tell based on results, based on communication, those, and this isn't dependent on division, but you can see where those relationships are the strongest. And I can almost guarantee that where they are, these meetings or that concept is alive and well.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that. Yeah, I mean, every agency's different. And you're right. This isn't something that you just snap your fingers and hey, we're all good. Now. I think what I wrote down here, and I appreciate this, Jim and I wrote down consistency beats intensity. I'm not anti intensity. I think we could do things with intensity, but problem is, hey, rah, rah, this thing we're going to go do and we don't talk about it again for six months or whatever it is. And well, that doesn't lead to anything versus, Hey, this is going to take a while, but we're going to do it week by week by week by week by week, and reinforce it. So that becomes part of our culture and our DNA of our agency. And you guys have done a great job with that. And I also think it's really interesting. I know if TRICOR, maybe this is in certain pockets, but a lot of our agencies, the producers kind of gravitate to a lot of some of these concepts quickly. The account manager, maybe it takes 'em a while to warm up, but usually when they warm up, they go, I wish we would've done this a long time ago. Have you seen some of that with TRICOR?

Jim Koster:

We have heard some of that. When I talk to the team leads and the account managers, they talk about how much they appreciate it because again, it frees up time for them. They understand what they need, and it allows them just to go and do the work that they're so good at doing.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah. Yeah, it's good stuff. All right. I know one of my questions, you kind of already answered to a degree about some of the stuff that you're doing with Sitkins. I don't know if there's anything else you want to add with this. I don't want this to be a paid promotion, that's not the goal, but obviously you've been with this for a while. I think the bigger thing is just what other agencies can learn, certainly in terms of concepts of things to think about. So you mentioned HPT in Green Zone. Anything else, Jim, that's jumping out at you and some of the things you've done at TRICOR successfully there?

Jim Koster:

Well, there's a number, you use the reverse referral strategy and so forth, but what I prepared for this call was really something that you've talked about, Roger's talked about, and it really is about having that MBA mastering those basic activities. And that's one of the things I've probably taken the most because it can apply to a lot of the different strategies and things that you do, but understanding that and the focus that success really comes from executing those basic fundamentals consistently, but exceptionally well. There is no silver bullet. I've heard that time and time again from folks on your podcast and other places, and it really is about being exceptionally good at the basics.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up. I won't try to get on my soapbox. I love to talk about that. But here's the challenge with the basics. They're not always very exciting. I mean, that's part of it, and I think we want to skip past it, but I could give a number of examples and I'm sure you could too, Jim, and just different things and you working with your team, but it's like I already know that I already know. I know, I know about my PODs. Okay, your point of differentiation. Well, how well can you explain them and what questions have you, "well, I don't know." I know referrals are important. Alright, well let's work on how exactly you do that. Well, so we could go down the line of some of these things that we would assume are basic and I suppose they are.

But anything worth doing, you might as well do it really well. And that's what we see time and time again. And certainly Jim, you've been around other agencies and other producers, whether it's part of our group or others. And it's always interesting you talk to someone who's built a large book of business or successful in whatever way from a business perspective, certainly. And you're expecting this magic answer, I did this one thing that no one else has ever done and I perfected it. Right? Maybe there's a couple of those out there with certain things, but it's always like they tell you and you're like, oh, that's it. Yeah, I did these five things really, really well. Again and again and again and again and again. It reminds me too, there was one of our producers we work with, he's like, "I'll be honest, a lot of stuff that I do, I know it's boring, but guess what? Because if I do these boring things really well, my life isn't, I get to do a lot of stuff other people don't.

Jim Koster:

That's a great answer.

Brent Kelly:

I was good for you. So it's good stuff. Alright, Jim, are you ready for the final question of the interview?

Jim Koster:

I am. I'm ready

Brent Kelly:

Where I'm going. I asked this to all of my guests, so I certainly want to give you the opportunity to answer. But if you were having a conversation with the younger version of you, in fact the younger version of you was actually communicating to you currently and said, why is Jim who's been doing this longer than I have, I'm looking for one piece of advice, help me grow in my career. And this could be personally too. What would be the one piece of advice that you would give?

Jim Koster:

Yeah, I mean I gave that a lot of thought and reflected back on some of the other things that I've heard. And really all I could come up with was this and that is don't be afraid to be great.

Brent Kelly:

Say that again.

Jim Koster:

I said, don't be afraid to be great. And I boiled that down into a few things. But oftentimes I see, and even sometimes not even, and I'll speak for myself, is that sometimes we get in our own way because we're really afraid to be our best version possible. We're afraid to do the work or whatever. So what I wrote after that was don't be afraid to put in the work. Don't be afraid to have a mentor. Don't be afraid to practice your craft. Don't be afraid to build strong relationships. And then last I said, don't be afraid to trust and believe in yourself.

Brent Kelly:

That's really good. I asked this question to all my guests and I get a lot of different answers. And again, there's no wrong answer, but I don't think I've heard it in that way before. And you're right. I think, man, I'm thinking to myself, and I've had conversations where all of us, I don't care, they call it the imposter syndrome, we all think that, oh, I'm not really good enough or whatever. And this is true, whether you've done some really good stuff, at least the people think, or maybe you're struggling, but you're right. I mean, it's like that little thing between our ears so often holds us back and wherever that comes from, it's like, don't risk. Don't allow the fear to get in the way of your greatness. I love that. Jim, anything else you want to add to that? I really like where you're going there.

Jim Koster:

No, that's all I can come up with.

Brent Kelly:

Well, I think what's all you can come up with is really good. So thank you. I'm glad that's all you come up with. Anything more, we just start to confuse me, Jim, I'm not a very smart guy. I got to do my best to hang in here. So listen, Jim, before we wrap up here again, I want to respect your time. Anything you want to say before we go? Any parting words? You don't have to, I don't put you on the spot, but anything you want to say to the listeners out there and Agent Leader podcast world?

Jim Koster:

I guess the only thing I would say is really thank you to Brent, to you, Roger, the rest of your team Kari's now on board and just the other members of the group. We really have learned a ton as we've been involved with Sitkins and the resources and really just the opportunity to reach out and share best practices and learn from others has been valuable to us and we look forward to that continuing. So thank you for the time and the opportunity. We appreciate it.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah, Jim, thanks so much. I mean, you had a ton of value with what you shared today. And listen, our theme here, if you're looking at my image, I know some of you are listening to audio only, Best Version Possible, the book and the process. And I mentioned the best version possible Fast Track, which is a 90 day integrated roadmap to help agencies be that catalyst of growth in your agency. And I mean growth, not just numbers, but as Jim said, growth in how you think and upleveling that, because this may be a bit cliche, but in the agency world in particular, you can look around and be like, we're doing pretty good. And you probably are. I don't doubt that for a minute. But the reason we have best version possible is I want to all think about that I do and go, okay, I mean it is good for today, but is this my best version possible? And I love what Jim said. I think we have maybe a potential title for this. Don't be afraid to be Great. Don't be afraid to be great. So thank you, Jim, again, appreciate that. Thanks for being listener of the Agent Leader Podcast. We'll talk to you again soon.