Maximizing Agency Value with Max Olson of Legacy Advisors
Brent Kelly:
You may have no plan of selling your agency this year, next year, or even three years or longer, but at some point you will exit your agency either internally or externally. On today's Agent Leader podcast, I have a fantastic guest, Max Olson of Legacy Advisors who's going to share some things to consider about your agency, whether you look at selling today or way down in the future. It's a great interview. Huge takeaways. Enjoy.
Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, I am your host, and this is the podcast for agency leaders to grow, to develop, to escape from good results into their best version possible. And today I have an awesome guest. I'm excited to have this guest today because he'll bring a different perspective on this podcast that we haven't had before, which to me is super exciting. Obviously I do a number of solo podcasts, I podcast where I bring in agency leaders.
In this case, I'm bringing in someone who is going to be talking about how you can sell your agency for a lot of money, and we'll talk more than just that. He's smiling here, but Max Olson with Legacy Advisors, I got the chance to, we got introduced Max, I think, through a mutual acquaintance, and then we were at an event together, although we were speaking at the same time. So I didn't get to see you speak and you didn't hear me speak, which maybe that's okay, but we had some great conversation and we've had some meetings afterwards. And I know that Max is going to bring a ton of value to you, the agency leader. And let's face it, you may go, well, I'm not going to sell my agency, but at some point you're going to leave your agency at some point internally, externally, you're going to exit. And one of the things that we believe in is let's maximize what we do, maximize the behaviors and strategies to help you exit whatever that's going to look like with the most options possible. And Max has got a great perspective. So with that, Max, I'll end my babble and say Welcome to the podcast.
Max Olson:
Thank you. I appreciate it. And yeah, I was wondering why there weren't tons of people at our speaking session. It's because they were at yours. Yeah. But it's great to be on. Thanks a lot for having Me.
Well, it's pretty funny. I'm over there talking to agency principals about certain strategies and behaviors to grow growth and profit, obviously agency valuation. And you over there talking about the perpetuation side, so maybe we should have done one after the other or whatever. But anyways.
Brent Kelly:
I want to first of all, Max, if you could share your experience, your background, everyone's got a story. I'd love to hear yours. How did you get to where you're doing today? What have you learned, all that good stuff. So give a history of your story and a little bit about legacy advisors and what you all do.
Max Olson:
Yeah, absolutely. So my background is from the insurance agency world. My dad owned an agency, two uncles own agencies. I owned an agency. I started with acquisition of three really small insurance agencies back in 2012. And we had a team of three, grew it organically and we did 13 total acquisitions over the next eight years and grew it from three employees to 30 and sold that to a private equity group back in 2020. It was a pretty wild ride, a lot of growth in a short period of time. Really enjoyed it. Started going through and then helping agency owners get prepped for sale. And in 2022, myself and Mike Berg, my partner, went through and then founded Legacy Advisors, went out on our own with it. And it's been a blast. I've gone through the experience of having agency that I've gone through and then built having a team that I love, and then you want to make sure that you go to the right spot and on it, we get to participate in what's one of the most influential moments in someone's life. It is their largest asset, something they care about a lot, and we help them make the right choice and ultimately get a larger amount of money for the agency as well. So it's been a blast. We helped 11 agencies last year, four so far this year, 300 contract that we're working with as well. So we've been able to touch a lot of agencies, livelihoods, and it's been great.
Brent Kelly:
And I know we'll get into more of this, but per our discussions, I've asked you a number of questions. I was like, gosh, we should take this to the podcast. There's great value in what you're saying. And then I've learned a lot, a ton as well. I think what's interesting too, Max, is you said this is that you've lived it, right? You've been in that world, you understand that world. One of the things that we've learned in some of our training is that there's a balance between empathy and authority, right? You've got both, right, that you understand what they're going through, but also you've now done it and have the credibility and authority to do it. So I'm excited to get to chat with you more here and share this with our listeners. And I want to start off with the positive thing. And again, you can take this question wherever you want in your world, your paradigm, but I always like to talk about agency success and just thinking about the agencies. And you mentioned some of the deals you've worked on and things you've done over the last year or so. I would love for you to maybe share some examples of success stories. What did an agency do? How did they prepare? What were they thinking about? I mean, gosh, I think this pretty broad, but I think success leaves clues, and I think it'd be interesting to hear maybe some areas where clues have been left that you could share with the audience.
Max Olson:
So I think ultimately at the end of the day, the biggest success for us is when we go through and then find somebody. They have a specific goal, they have a specific day two culture, what would happen after the sale and specific financial goals that they want to go through and hit and all of them are achieved. And then some, I think one of the most enjoyable experiences we went through and then had a lot of times we go through and then start conversations with people a year plus before they actually sell. And I remember there was one agent that had come to us back in the end of 2022, thinking about potentially selling. We went through the whole process of valuation with them, basically let them know there's a few items that they could sell today or back then, but realistically, if they made a few changes, it would be a dramatic difference in their sales price.
They took the information, they used it, all was positive impacts for their agency, even if they didn't go through and then sell. And realistically, when they did go through and then sell, they sold for millions more than what they could have when they first came to us. And I know there's a lot of scenarios where people would go through and then push on trying to go through and then sell your agency today. We're not here to sell anyone on selling. So we're here to go through and give information. And if there's items that basically could help someone two years down the road, now would be a better time. We just want them to have success no matter when.
Brent Kelly:
Yeah. I want to dive into a couple of those things. Some nuggets we can get into. Again, we've had some of these conversations before, but I think one of the things that you said that we can overlook is actually having a plan.
And let's face it, this happens. We see this too, where agencies get backed into a corner. I've just been doing the thing and doing the thing, and it's like, oh, now what? I got to do something with this versus saying again, whatever it is, we've talked about this, whether it's, Hey, in five years I want to do this in three years I want to do this or I don't really know yet, but I want to prepare just in case on these kinds of things. And to me, one of the things that we love to provide, and this is certainly mutual, I think we have a mutual understanding here, agreement is that giving agency owners and leaders and their teams options, let's give you as many good options as possible. So I think that was the key part. And the other thing too, I'll get in the numbers a little bit because these change in this world, but we talk about to agency leaders all the time, are you leaving millions potentially of dollars on the table?
Think about this. You go, well, I don't know. I don't know. But let's face it, this is an incredible, incredible business. There's these things called multiples in this business. There's some pretty good ones. And just, again, I know there's a lot of factors to this, but just from a very basic numerical standpoint, it's pretty safe to say that typically every $100,000 in unrealized profit is a million dollars plus oftentimes for an agency and value. And again, there's discrepancies and all that, but I just said for overall, you think about that, wow, this is important stuff. I mean, this is important stuff. And so I guess to go further on that, we talk so much and we work so much Max on behaviors and strategies in getting processes in place so that we can streamline things. What have you seen agencies do? I mean even a little more tangibly maybe in that case you gave, that actually helped them shift from "We're doing pretty good" to, "wow, we're really valued at a high level now."
Max Olson:
So I'll just go off of my own story. The one I know best, right? So when I went through own an agency, I was about five years in. I knew that one day had considered going through and selling, didn't know when that was. I wasn't trying to sell immediately, but I didn't know what the calculation of where my sales price would come from. I didn't know the things, the levers that would go through and then move it up or down, especially the multiple. And I didn't know the ways to go through and maximize stuff. So I'd gone through, talked to a business broker at the time, didn't really focus as much on insurance, wouldn't have been the right choice long term, but they gave me a ton of information that allowed me to go through and improve my agency a lot. So at that point in time, I had five offices.
People basically spread out between all the different offices, which is difficult. You got extra utilities, you got extra rent, oftentimes you have extra people just because you need more people per location. In that scenario, I hadn't gone through and diversified my book from a carrier perspective as much as I could have, and I didn't have the processes in place to go through and make it so my average revenue per employee was where it should end up being at. So over the next two years, I consolidated offices, still kept all my people, which chose great locations that were in between previous locations. I went through and then instituted the EOS system, hired consultants to go through, and then helped me improve on sections that I wouldn't have been able to improve on my own. And ultimately three years later, our agency sold for two and a half times what it was worth two and a half years earlier. So if you look at the return on investment on that, it was absurd. But without knowing the levers, without knowing the goal state, it's really hard to go through and make those changes. Right?
Brent Kelly:
Yeah. Well, that's a great point. I mean, I'll be very self-centered here for a second, but we see this because it's real. It's like, well, I don't know if you should invest in that because it's a cost and well, no, you missed the word. It is an investment, a huge investment and a great investment. And I mean the joke, but not a joke is like, Hey Max, if I gave you a dollar and I magically turned into five, how many of those dollars do you want? Give me as many as you can, right? I mean, it's like, yeah, okay. So again, you've got to back that up, but I think your story is a great example of that, of just the things that we need to do. And I think one thing, and you mentioned revenue per employee, and I don't want to get caught up in KPIs because every agency is different, but I do think that's a pretty important KPI or metric that a lot of agencies, quite frankly don't really pay that much attention to and they should. And now some do. And a lot of that comes back to issues of agency capacity. And I want to see if you see this with some agencies you talk to or just from your experience. Oftentimes we'll hear agencies talk about, we just need more people. We need more people, we need more people. And that could be true, right? I'm not saying it's not true, but oftentimes what I find is that the agencies are trying to throw people at the problem versus addressing the problem.
Totally. Yeah. Do you agree with that? Have you seen examples like that?
Max Olson:
Yeah, I mean, we go through and we see financials for agencies all day long, and we will go through and then see shops that have a million dollars in revenue and they'll have nine and a half people there, and then a million dollars in revenue, and they'll have three. The one with three is growing just as fast as the one with nine and a half. There's something that needs to change on one of those.
And yeah, I think if you invest in the processes and streamline everything, and that doesn't have to be at the expense of customer service, you can have a better client experience if you're going through and then using the right processes, that is a huge, huge return because if you can go through and then take your payroll down from 50% of your revenue down to 40, that's oftentimes hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars when it comes time to actually sell.
And Max, I don't know if you've heard us say this before. Again, we've had some conversations, but two of our key principles like Sitkins 101, and this feeds into this, is we have profitable producers that are subsidizing our unprofitable producers. There's a lot of agencies they go well, that's just kind of the way it is. Well, okay, let's talk about it, is it, and secondly is we have profitable accounts that are subsidized in our unprofitable accounts.
That's just the way it is. And again, there's a lot of different ways, again, every agency's different. I always joke with agencies, the best thing about being independent is you're independent. The biggest challenge of being independent is you're independent. A lot of different ways you can shake it. There's a lot of differences there. But I think what you're saying talks to that very well, and I don't know if you'll find humor in this or not, but it's the 2-2 syndrome. I've had the 2-2 syndrome, too many clients paying us too little money or too many people doing too little things of results or whatever it is. So I think that's a huge issue. And I want to dive in maybe some of the frustration challenges or even mistakes. I think we can learn a lot from success, learn a lot from mistakes. What would be a mistake or a challenge, maybe a better term, that you see agencies run into? Again, whether they're looking to sell short term, long term or just want to get some feedback of how do we improve? What are some of mistakes that you typically see?
So the one that I hear the most often from people we talk to is they went directly to a buyer or a buyer went directly to them. They only talked with one buyer, which is the one that basically went through and then told them what their agency was worth. You don't want to go through and have the person that's potentially buying your agency telling you what it's worth. You want to have that from a third party or at least multiple different buyers at a minimum. And ultimately, we've had people that have gone through and then been in diligence for over a year. That's insane. The whole process is normally four to five months if you do it. So if you're in the point where it's like you've got an offer and you haven't gone through and closed it, it's a year later, it is nuts. But we hear the story over and over and over again.
Brent Kelly:
Interesting. Yeah, my brain took me selling my home and having someone show up and be like, I don't know. What do you think?
Max Olson:
That's what it is. And then imagine keeping your home staged for over a year and every month you've got to do a deep clean and then reassess everything. I mean, it is exhausting. And the agencies that have gone through and told me those stories, I mean they're just fed up with the entire thing by the end.
Brent Kelly:
I mean, I don't know if this is a relevant question or not, maybe it is, but is that one of the frustrations or maybe a hindrance of holding agencies back from having those conversations? They just feel like it's going to suck up a year of their life?
Max Olson:
I don't know if it's that. I think a lot of it is there's not nearly as much education in this space as there should be. If you think about how to go through and then improve client, how to improve employee productivity, you can probably go through and see a hundred different things online about that. If you're talking about how to sell your agency properly for the most money, you don't see that that often because almost like this taboo, you're raising the white flag and then it's like, I'm out. But it's one of the most important parts in any agency's, agency owner's career is how well they go through and then do that. It oftentimes can be years worth of profits, especially on the front end. So it's like you should go through and then do it, right.
Brent Kelly:
Yeah, it's interesting. I think you mentioned that in other conversation we had about raising the white flag and it got into the psychology behind that. And again, why is that more of a normal conversation or a thought process or planning? And this may not be relevant. I had none of this prepared, but it hit me, it's like when you're planning, preparing for an estate or you think about your legacy with your kids and...
Max Olson:
Good choice of words. I liked it.
Brent Kelly:
You like that? You see how I did that?
Max Olson:
Yeah. Legacy, legacy plug. That was solid.
Brent Kelly:
It's like a legacy, but I mean it's talking about a will and different things. I know these are separate subjects, but part of it is it's not always fun to some degree even to think about, I suppose is what it gets into. But man, is it important? And if you don't do it, what happens?
A phrase that I say to agencies all the time, and maybe you can address this from your world, I love to hear this. I said, you really have two choices in life. And this is true in anything. This is true in agencies. You either prepare or you repair. You look at lots of stuff, and I've been on both sides of this by the way. I find myself, I tell people what takes longer repairing, it's a mess. So do you see, again, maybe that's relevant to you or not, but do you see sometimes with agencies where they're having to repair stuff or play catch up versus doing some of the preparation work in advance?
Max Olson:
Yeah, I mean, what we see often is somebody comes through that basically is like, Hey, I waited until the last minute. Maybe a health issue or something along that nature I want to sell and then I want to exit the next day. Realistically, if they plan just a little bit, if they gave themselves a little bit of a window, I call it three years,
Oftentimes they could go through and then sell, get a huge bite out of the apple, have three more years of an earnout, get an additional bite of the apple. And financially they're in a really, really, really great spot, but they just kind of push off the conversation. And I think a lot of it as well is people have heard stories of somebody going to a certain buyer and just not being good fit or a certain model, and that's how it would be and life would suck. There's lots of different models that are out there and these buyers, they all have different profiles. So if you want to go through and then say, I just want to sell insurance, I want somebody else to just manage these people, I want them to manage the IT. I wanted to manage the accounting, I just want to sell insurance. There's options that exist there. Now if you're like, Hey, we got a great thing, I just want to de-risk a little bit. I know I've got this huge value in my agency. I want to keep managing my people and I want to maintain a very similar culture. There's options there too. It just depends on what you're looking for. But people going through and thinking there's only one path oftentimes prevents them from having the conversation in the first place.
Brent Kelly:
That's a great point. Remind you of something I was speaking on earlier this week. It is true. Things that I teach and talk about are oftentimes things that I'm also struggling with or working through. I think that's being a coach, consultant, trainer, you're like, okay, that's a good question. How would I react to that? But what I was getting to is that if you ask most agency leaders, Hey, what's frustrating you or what do you not? They can give you a lot of answers. I don't like this. I don't mean it's common. I'm frustrated with this. If you say, but what do you really want? They will often hesitate way more on that question. What do you mean? I'm like, no, what do you really want? I feel like I'm doing a scene from the Notebook. If you ever watched that movie, what do you want? Sorry, my daughters love that movie. If you're a Notebook fan, you'll laugh. If you don't, you think I'm crazy,
Max Olson:
They'll be proud of you,
Brent Kelly:
But what do you want? And it's like, what do you mean no? What are you trying to build or leave or do or accomplish? And I don't know, I haven't really thought about it.
Max Olson:
Yeah, I mean most people don't go through and then start with the end in mind. They don't go through and then say, where do I want to eventually get to? Because it's a lot easier to get there if you're actually thinking how you're going to do it. If you're just going around aimlessly, it's going to be really unlikely that you find where you want to be eventually.
Brent Kelly:
Yeah, my very silly analogy on that, Max, I said, it's like if you step outside your office or your house or whatever, and someone pulls up in a car and they go, Hey, hop in, let's go. And you're like, where are we going? I don't know, but just let's go. It's like, of course you're not going to do that, but it kind of happens arbitrarily every day. It's like we just live. We're just kind of going wherever it goes versus saying, Hey, listen, I have an end in mind. I think that's super, super critical.
Alright, I don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm going to anyway because a sharp guy, I know you can handle this, so I don't think it's putting you on the spot, but if an agency leader was thinking, Hey Max, you've lived it. You've walked it. You're very focused on what you do now and helping agencies maximize this important thing, this most important asset they have, what's the number one thing? What's one thing that I should be most focused on concerned about? I don't know what it is. What's the one thing that I don't know that I probably should know or should be
Max Olson:
To narrow down to one is fun. So thanks for that.
Brent Kelly:
You're welcome.
Max Olson:
If they are basically a few months out from selling, and if there is one thing that they would go through and then do that would have the greatest impact, it would be get the EBITDA.
So basically, if you think of when an agency goes through and then sells, they will have their sales price, generally speaking is going to be EBITDA times a multiple, and that's their sales price. And everyone goes through and then they'll shout from the rooftop. So they got a 10X EBITDA multiple when they heard their buddy down the street, got a nine and a half. But a lot of people don't focus at all on that first number. And there is so much sway that can happen in that number and you can go through. And then we've seen agencies that went from a nine to a 40+ percent EBITDA multiple.
Others don't change as much. It depends on what variables can exist, but focus on that number. Get it right, because every single dollar you're finding that's an expense that wouldn't exist on a go forward or every additional revenue that a dollar revenue that you find that any buyer would get, but you aren't going through. And then getting, those are $10 or eight to $12 when it comes to the sales price. So you can go through and then spend a few hours and literally walk away with hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars more in sales price if you focus on getting that EBITDA number right.
Brent Kelly:
Yeah, that's great. I appreciate you sharing that. And yeah, I think it is, again, overlooked at least from being intentional about it. And yeah, we see it too. I mean, it shifts, and again, we're not in that world or model. What we try to do is help agencies maximize everything they can for whatever they want to do. And agency valuation is a big part of that. But I mean, just from a very basic level for us Max, and we look at organic growth rate percentage and operating profit percentage, and we actually look at the two numbers put together. And again, that's not EBITDA, but I mean it starts to look at factors of that
And you go, oh, I haven't thought about that way before. Or there's been intentional with what that results in. I want to make sure you get a plug in here. Obviously we've talked about, and we'll put stuff in the show notes, but if an agency leader Max says, Hey, listen, anywhere from I don't have, we want to remain independent and private forever, but at some point I'm going to have to do something internally, or I'm thinking maybe three or five years there's something there. Or maybe it's, Hey, the next couple of years I really want to do something with this. How do they connect with you? What would be an initial step, I guess with Legacy?
Max Olson:
Yeah, they could go on our website, it's legacy-advisors.com. That info would come to me if they fill it out. Yeah, I mean upfront, again, we're not here to sell anybody on selling. It is their choice, whatever the right time would be. We just want to make sure that they have all the information so that way when they're making their choices, it's the best choice possible for them and their family. So our first step is always we get to know them. We go over what a process is in general. They should know that whether they're doing it in a month or five years. And then if it makes to at least get an idea of what an expected sales price would be, like a snapshot in time, we'll do that with them, even if it's two or three years before they'll go through and actually sell. We want to go through and build relationships, and oftentimes we can give them advice that's really valuable and worth, again, hundreds of thousands of dollars when they go through and then sell. And some of them basically decide to go through and then move forward then because it makes sense for them. And some of them they might reach out to us in a year or two.
Brent Kelly:
Yeah, that's great. I love the simplified approach, and again, I've enjoyed our conversations for many reasons, but your approach of a true consultant or how can I help you move you forward? And maybe you do something with us, maybe you don't, but I'm going to educate you and empower you as much as I can that you have options, can make the best decisions that are important for you and the people you care about and love the most. And I think that says a lot, and I've appreciated that in our conversation. I'll say this too, and I'm going to do a shameless plug, but an important plug, that's something that we do at the Sitkins Group. In fact, I've mentioned this on some recent podcast. We started doing this the summer of 2024. I shared it with you, Max on a call recently.
Yeah, we want to do the same thing. And so for agencies that go, Hey, listen, maybe we want to sell or whatever. We want to improve our agency valuation, we want to get better, we want to go pick, but in the marketplace, whatever it is your reason to be out there, we are providing an assessment for an agency that qualifies. So you book a quick call, we'll ask you some super simple questions, if it makes sense, you'll talk to one of our coaches and we will do a detailed assessment, a Best Version Possible assessment for your agency and deliver you a plan. And at that point, you can do with the plan what you want. In some cases, we would love to work with you, it's a great fit in some cases, maybe it won't make most sense for you, but just like Max said, give you options and allow you to be empowered to make an important decision for the number one asset that you have, which is your agency, right? It's your agency. So alright, Max, I have one final question. Has nothing to do necessarily I guess with insurance or selling. It has to do about you giving advice to a younger version of you.
So I don't know if you're prepared for this, but I'll try to slow down and let you think about it. So imagine that the younger version of Max, maybe you're just getting started on your professional career, so you're just kind of baby Max in the professional world. That person comes up to you today, what you know today and says, Hey listen, I'm looking for the best piece of advice you can give me older version of me. What advice would you give?
Max Olson:
So if it was me personally, personally, definitely I would go through and then give the advice of slow down a little bit and enjoy the ride. So on my end, I basically sprinted for about 10 years straight, which worked out really, really well. But I could have taken a few breaks, which would've been very nice, and I don't think it would've impacted stuff too much realistically. And while you're going through the whole thing, it's like you focus on that end in mind, but it's a pretty awesome journey along the way. So just take a step back and then just appreciate it while you're in it.
Brent Kelly:
Yeah, that's fantastic. There's absolutely no wrong answers to that. Everybody's got their own perspective and I love that. In fact, I was just having that conversation with my wife. And I'm going to go ahead, I'm going to add one more and I'm going to respect your time here, but I want to go deeper in your question. I'm curious of your response on this, but I was thinking everybody, especially with kids and stuff, as you go through life, you're like, wow, how did we already get here?
And you start thinking, in 10 years, am I going to be just grinding at this and be like, okay, now I'm here. Now what happened? And so my question or my thought, I don't know if it's a question, but a thought is how do you balance ambition and gratitude in the sense of ambition is, I know there's more in me when we talk about best version possible. I never want to look back and go, yeah, I just settled, I just kind of got through it. And it's okay, A lot of people do that. But to be truly grateful and present in that process. Any thoughts? Again, I don't know if it's really a question, I just want to maybe get your perspective on that.
Max Olson:
Yeah, I mean, as I got a little bit more mature and then more into the swing of things, usually I'd go through and then set goals for myself, which once I achieved them, then it's something where it's like you can take a step back and don't just reset another goal that's 20% higher the following, but take a step back. Actually, you did it. That's great because oftentimes, especially if you're in a complete growth mindset, you just always make your goals higher and higher and higher and higher, which there's nothing wrong with that, but you should appreciate it along the way. You should take a step back and be like, Hey, you did a great job and you can still do better, but say you did a good job first.
Brent Kelly:
Yeah, I mean interesting that there's a challenge there because I don't, we talked to agency leaders, certainly producers too. Is it about money or is it about winning? They'll generally always say winning. It's about winning. The money will come and that's great, but I just want to go out and win and achieve. And I think that's how most entrepreneurial growth minded people are. Like if you're not growing, you feel very trapped or you're frustrated. So I think there's always that growth. And if you've done something, I think I'm with you. It's like, I know I've done this and now I can grow and accomplish more. And I always want to be able to have that mindset. But in the middle of all of those things, am I?
And how do I take time to go, I enjoy this, I appreciate this, I'm grateful for this, I'm grateful for people around me. I'm grateful. And I think, again, this is not planned, but it hit me. I had a podcast conversation the other day. I think one of the things that helps, I'm learning, I'm learning, haven't learned, I'm learning, is you think about the impact that you've made, not necessarily on yourself, but in relationships with people you think, you know what? I was really able to impact and help someone that's like, oh, I can appreciate and be grateful. Not that I'm grateful for where I'm at either, but just I think it takes that self-centered thing is like, Hey, how can I go out and impact and help even more people? And here's how I wrap this up. This wasn't intentional, but I'll do it anyway because guess what, the more people I can impact and help and serve the greater my legacy. Greater legacy. There you go, Max. I'll be able to leave. So any final comments, thoughts to the audience before we depart here?
Max Olson:
No, I think you wrapped it up perfect. I really appreciate you going through and having me on. It's always a pleasure chatting with you and hopefully we'll connect again.
Brent Kelly:
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And again, I love the perspective that you provide to this and I've enjoyed our conversations. I know we'll continue to have more. So if you're an agency leader, and again, like I said earlier, you want to have just open discussion about some of these things, I don't even know where I'd start. I don't know if I want to do this. I don't know if whatever, reach out to Max, if you can't tell already, he'll have a conversation with you and educate you to make the best decisions, give you the best option. So also with that, if you have any questions with us, the Sitkins Group, go to sitkins.com/bookacall, the simplest way to get started to get your agency assessment. And with that, I wish you all the best in your success. Thanks for listening.
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