Small Thinking - Click #1

Brent Kelly:

Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, your host. Thanks so much for joining me on another episode. So glad that you're with me. And I've got a very, very special guest that I'm going to be introducing just in a minute or so. But before I give this guest the credit that it's deserved, I want to make sure that I always get the purpose, the mission of the Agent Leader podcast is to help you the agency leader, whether you're the agency principal, whether you're the sales leader, a producer or insurance professional in your office, to help you gain clarity, build consistency, and to make a commitment to become your best version possible.

Brent Kelly:

And we're getting some really great feedback on our book, Best Version Possible. Hint, hint, hope you love that title. Best Version Possible, and you can find it at sitkins.com/bvp. So make sure you get a copy. Hey, get two or three copies and share them with your friends, but great feedback on our book, Best Version Possible. And again, sitkins.com/bvp to get your copy.

Brent Kelly:

Now, I want to get into our conversation today and to do that, I want to make sure that I introduce my guest properly. And this guest is someone that I've known for quite a while now. Someone I worked very closely with. Someone who has served the independent insurance agency for 40 years. So he may know a thing or two about results and processes and strategies for independent insurance agencies. And I don't know how many professionals you've worked with. I mean, I would guess well over thousands of producers and hundreds of agencies, but if you don't know yet, my special guest is Roger Sitkins CEO of the Sitkins Group. Roger, welcome back, it's been a little while, to the Agent Leader podcast.

Roger Sitkins:

It has been a while. I appreciate the opportunity to be here again, and I'm really excited about today's topic. It's going to open some eyes to say the least.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah. So this came about, Roger and I were talking, obviously we run a number of sessions and events for the Sitkins Group. And we were just talking about some different areas and we began to talk about clicks. In fact, I'm going to have Roger share a story of a really powerful click here in a minute. But these "clicks" and what do I mean by clicks? Well, there could be different names. They could be breakthroughs. Maybe you're busting through a trap or a plateau. It's a mindset shift. Right? In many cases where you begin to see things and do things at a different level to get you some of the results that maybe you didn't even think were possible prior to that click.

Brent Kelly:

So we're going to be doing a series. And we talk about, well, let's do a podcast and talk about these clicks. And we realize, well, we may be on here for three to four hours. So we thought maybe that's not a good idea. Let's break up these clicks and we're going to be going through eight clicks. So through the summer, as we're recording this, and whether you're listening to this during the summer, or maybe it's later in the year, which is fine, they're going to be very impactful for you and your agency to find out maybe where there's a plateau or a trap or a rut that your agency's fallen into. And we're going to share some of the clicks to help you get out or break past that plateau.

Brent Kelly:

So the first click we're going to be talking about is the click that truly is a mindset shift. It's moving from small thinking or limited thinking to true abundance thinking or higher level thinking. It all starts with our mind. Roger, you've got a fantastic story. You share this on our producer camp. I always loved, in fact, in our very first session, we talk about mindset clicks and you've got a great story with someone you've worked with for quite a while. So I want you to share with the audience, that story about the click.

Roger Sitkins:

This is a producer who became a great friend of mine. In fact, he wound up going on six or seven mission trips with me to Nicaragua. And he's a large guy. He's about 6' 7" and about 275, 280. And so he actually got a nickname when we went to Nicaragua. The first time we got off the bus and walked into the village where we're going to be building a home. And most of our Nicaraguan friends are smaller people. And they looked up and they saw him and one turned to the other and went, "Grande Gringo." So we wound up calling him Grande Gringo and that's his nickname still today.

Roger Sitkins:

But when he was going through our producer program originally, and this is boy, probably 12, 15 years ago, you could just tell there was something about him, not only just his size, just a really nice guy, very committed man. And we became friends. And this was before Nicaragua. This was I think the third session he was coming to. And he called me ahead of time. He said, "Hey, Coach I'd really like to do some back bay fishing with you." He lives on the West Coast. And he came to Southwest Florida... And West Coast of the country, California. And he came to Southwest Florida and we booked a fishing guide and we went out back bay and we were just slamming them. We were just catching snook was just wonderful. But then the afternoon rains hit a little bit earlier. I think it was about one o'clock and we got chased off the water. We had a guide and we said, "Well, let's just go get lunch together."

Roger Sitkins:

So we went to a restaurant down on Fort Myers Beach and had a few cold beers and some chicken wings. And we were talking, but I looked at him and I said, "How big of a book do you think you can have? What could you become?" And he said, "Whoa, boy, Roger." He said, "I'm at about $650,000 now. And I don't know that I'm going to get much bigger. I think I want to write larger accounts, but have fewer of them, but I don't really see myself ever getting maybe seven, 750." And I looked at him and Brent, you heard the story a hundred times probably now. But I looked at him and I said, "You know what? I disagree." He went, "What?" I said, "I disagree." I said, "I see in you a million dollar plus. In fact, a multiple of million dollar plus producer."

Roger Sitkins:

And it was the first time ever I had experienced where I saw someone literally like click. You could almost hear their brain going click click. And his eyes got real big. And he went, "You're right. I never saw that before. I never thought of it before." So just in that discussion right there, you could hear the click. And then I said, "Okay, what does it look like? What does it look like when you're at a million? What does it look like when you're at 2 million." Whatever it may be. And he started designing it right away. And it was just interesting, Brent, because when the click happened, it was like the barriers opened up. He started thinking bigger. Today he's over $6 million of commission income on his personal book of business.

Brent Kelly:

Right. What was that number again?

Roger Sitkins:

Six million of commission income on his own book, not premium commission income. In fact, two years ago on his birthday, I called him to wish him a happy birthday. And we missed each other. He called me back about an hour later and he said, "Coach, I got to tell you I got a great birthday present today." I said, "What's that?" He said, "I wrote the largest account I've ever written." I said, "How big?" He said, "One million on one account." Now, will everybody do that? No. Does everybody want to be that big and make that big of a commitment? No.

Roger Sitkins:

But it was amazing how once that click happened, the barriers, the self-limiting beliefs went away. And so it's become a great story. And now what happens during our programs, as we talk about this, okay, what's your click? What opened up in your mind? What self-limiting belief did you eliminate and say, oh, there's a best version possible of me as we now talk about sitting out there waiting for me to arrive. So it was a great experience and it's a lesson that's been shared now with thousands of people.

Brent Kelly:

It's a great story. And to your point, Roger, I mean, whether someone's like you get people to go, six million, that's crazy, no way. Maybe it isn't six million for you, but it's amazing too. And it's not amazing anymore because I see it all the time is that whatever that click that breakthrough is, and it could be a producer who's at a hundred, 150,000 who thinks, yeah, that'd probably be a three or 400,000 producer someday. No. There's so much more within you. And these are those breakthroughs and Roger you said it so well. It's a self limiting belief.

Roger Sitkins:

Yeah.

Brent Kelly:

When we talk the best version possible story and some of you may have heard this before, I was simply asking a question to Roger about what's the best version possible of insurance agencies and Roger rattled off a whole bunch of great stuff. In fact, things we'll probably talk about in the coming weeks in these sessions. But then it teed up something bigger and deeper, which was what's the best version possible of me. And that question and Roger, you addressing it and we talk about that in our camps with our professionals that we work with, Hey, what's that best version of you? And what does it really look like? And let go of those things that are holding you back from it.

Brent Kelly:

Some people are like, oh, that seems a bit like, oh wow, woo, woo. But the truth of it is there are self limiting beliefs. There are barriers, there are blockades, there are things that are from no one else but yourself that are holding people back. And I think that's a big part. What I want to talk today about are some of those areas that you see in agencies where maybe there's some small minded or limited thinking and how we get some breakthroughs. But I do want to share if I could, Roger, I guess I can. I'm hosting the podcast so I can do what I want. Right?

Roger Sitkins:

What you want, yeah.

Brent Kelly:

But we all have them. And I had one of those moments, it's been a couple months ago, I guess. A few months back, we were doing our sales mastery program and one of our attendees, and by the way, he's been interviewed on this podcast before, one of our great members. We were having lunch together and we were just talking about different things. And he was asking about where I live and how long I've get down to Florida and all that stuff. And he says, "Oh, do you ever think about living down here?" And I said, "Oh, sure. All the time. You see the boats and the water and all that stuff."

Brent Kelly:

And I said, "What's interesting though, is that essentially you'll come down and you fly in. And when you go on vacation or you're in nice resorts, you always see the best of stuff. And you see all kind of this kind of this and that." And he is like, "Well, what are you saying?" I'm like, "Well, I'm just saying like, you see the best. It's not always reality." And he just stopped and like me dead in the eye and just goes, "Well, why not you?" Someone has that house. Someone has that yacht. And he is like, "It doesn't mean that you want that house or that yacht. But the point of it is that, why are you limiting your thinking?" And I was like, "You're right. You're right."

Brent Kelly:

So we all have it if we're not very careful. And I think a big part that I want to get to today is how do we begin to break through? So I want to start off Roger, just very generalized question, but things that you've seen in all your experiences. Why do you think that insurance agencies, insurance professionals, producers, I mean, you mentioned Grande Gringo. Why do you think that they think too small? How does that happen?

Roger Sitkins:

Well, part of it's what you just said. They see things. They go, well, that's not me. And something I would hope everybody would write down if they're not driving someplace right now is why not me? Why not me? Why not my agency? Because if someone's done it's possible. It's not impossible, it's possible. And so rather than saying, well, that's probably not going to be me. And it's probably not going to be there. And I've had them. I've had tons of self limiting beliefs through my life. I think every human being does.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah.

Roger Sitkins:

But at some point when you finally say, why not me? What do I have to do to get there? First of all, do you really want it? Does it meet your values? Does it meet what you want for your family, your community, your church, whatever it may be. But then once you have it, have the pigheaded discipline to do the stuff that you know you need to do. And so it starts with, what do you really want? And Simon Sinek's, Start With Why.

Brent Kelly:

Right. Yeah. It's powerful. And I wrote something down. One thing that Roger, you say on many of the sessions we run with our agency partners is basically paraphrase of what you said is, what's possible. What's really possible? And I don't know that agencies and professionals often think about that much. They really don't. Because you get caught up in the day to day stuff. And one thing that I think you, as a great coach, Roger, and something certain that I try to do with our members and our professionals is to help them see more and see before things they may not see on their own. Right? Help them envision a bigger, brighter future. And once they see it and go, you know what? Then all of a sudden it's like, maybe I can do this. And that's that first little click on that. We're going to move to more of the positive side of this, but I think it's important to ask this question to you. What do you see has been the impact of agencies or professionals that think small?

Roger Sitkins:

It's pretty simple. They wind up at the end of their career with a ton of regrets. And every one of us are eventually going to leave our business. When we do, whether we're an agency owner, a partner, a big producer, whatever it may be, every one of us eventually leaves our business. And when you do, do you want to have regrets or regreats as we've talked about before. Let's have the great results, let's do the great things so that the end of our career, we can say, "Wow, that was really cool. Look what I did. Look what I did." And yet, I haven't seen an official study on this, but I do know that the vast majority of Americans are not financially secure at the end of their careers. I think it's less than 10% are. And then you look at it and say, well, what happens?

Roger Sitkins:

Well, then they're going, "I wish I would've... I wish I could've... If I'd only done this." And so it starts with a mindset, a click, if you will. Look, you want regrets or regreats? Something we talk about all the time, if you're going to put the time in anyway, why not be great at it? Why not be great? If you're going to spend another five, 10, 15, 20, 25 years doing this, be great at it and get great results and look towards that. All right. What's the best version possible of me? What do I have to do to get there?

Brent Kelly:

Yeah. It's kind of an idea too. And I know this is a bit cliche, but it's true. It's like, are you just going to go through life or you going to grow through it? And I it's just like, oh, just pass through it. And then when we get to the end, maybe there'll be some cool things maybe. Or maybe I'll die. I don't know

Roger Sitkins:

They will die.

Brent Kelly:

Well, we know that. That's for sure. And I've shared this story. I shared actually yesterday on one of our final sessions of a group that we're working with. But as you said, it just feels like the right time to share it again on this podcast, but it's been a while. And it leads exactly to what you said. And I had a mentor years ago that asked me about the definition of hell on earth. I know you've heard this before. But it just goes back to regrets. And I said, "No, what's the definition of hell on earth?" And he said, "Well, Brent, the definition of hell on earth is that when you get to the last day of your life on this earth, you come face to face with the person that you could have become if only." And man, that just, even when I say it now, it shakes me to the core. Because none of us are going to have perfect lives, right? That's not what we're saying.

Brent Kelly:

But this idea of getting at some point to the end, and by the way, we don't know when that's going to be. So you might as well maximize every day. And all of a sudden the idea of meeting that other version of me, not the best version of me, the average version of me and going, "Hey, you did pretty average. That was good. By the way, this is what could have become of you if only." Anyway, just hopefully the listeners out there going, yeah, like what am I going to be doing to maximize today? Because it truly is. I mean, it's your opportunity is right now. So take advantage of it.

Brent Kelly:

All right. I know you mentioned Grande Gringo as a breakthrough Mark Ship, which I love that story. But where have you seen agencies, and it could be another professional producer, where have you seen them have a breakthrough as an agency in their thinking, or certainly their actions as well, Roger?

Roger Sitkins:

Boy. There's so many of them that with all the new things we're doing, it's getting even more exciting. I think some of them finally realized that as an agency overall and as an individual producer, that the size of the agency, the size of the individual books of business, the size of the personal income will always be driven by your average revenue per client. So how do you upscale? How do you raise the bar, whatever term you want to use. But how do you earn larger accounts? Well, it's not doing what you've always done. So it's a matter of, number one, don't fall into that trap of what we call the too too syndrome. Too many accounts paying too little money each.

Roger Sitkins:

So when they start that and they say, okay, we've got to upscale. We've got to raise that revenue relationship. How do we do that? Well, they already have some large accounts. And when we use the power of the 80/20 rule, the law of the vital few, Predo's principle, has several titles. You realize that you do have, right now, in the vast majority of agencies and producers books, you've got the top 5% that are 50% of your revenue. And we look at it, we say, "Well, how did you get those?" Well you get lucky, which you don't get lucky on those accounts. You've earned them. And a big breakthrough happens when they say, "Well, wait a minute. If I can write some A accounts and some B accounts, why don't I replicate those?" We always say you're going to replicate something, what do you want to replicate?

Roger Sitkins:

So we go back and say, "Well, how did you get that?" Because all too often, what happens when an agency or a producer write a large account, they go, "Well, we got lucky. We got lucky," as I said earlier. And the reality is you make your own luck. As I've heard you say before on the podcast. And so when you get a big account. First of all, do a debrief. Why did you get it? How did you get it? And when the producer goes, "Well I just, I got lucky, I got a referral." I'm thinking, so why don't you replicate that? And we always say, look, when you write an easy account, quote, unquote, "easy account," figure out how you did it and do it five more times. And just that click when people go, "Oh, well, that makes sense." How did I get it? How do I replicate it? How do I get it? How do I replicate it? So that's a huge starting point.

Roger Sitkins:

The other one, and you hear me laugh about this a lot and comment about it, of everything I've done in over 40 years now. Okay? Of working with agencies and looking to help people, to help individuals. And now with our whole theme of what is the best version possible, how do we get there? I guess I'm going to be known for one thing, that's going to be the green zone. The difference between a red zone and the green zone, and people finally go, "Oh, green zone. Yeah. What's the green zone?" Well, it's when you're doing the four key money making activities. Green is green. And so it's sales, it's continuations, it's relationship management, it's pipeline building. That's where you spend 80% of your time. And even on our session that we just finished yesterday, the eighth session of the producer program, people are going "Well, what did you get out of... Oh, this green zone, the green zone." And they talk about it when we do our round table breakouts. "Oh, we've got to spend more time in the green zone."

Roger Sitkins:

And it's something where they realize that the red zone is a service trap and you're not good at it as a salesperson. So how do we get in the green zone? And all of a sudden thinking, huh? And we use this term time. Definition of producer, one who actually produces. So spend your time producing. So those are some of the things that are just really, really jumped out. But maybe the biggest breakthrough, I think of everything else we've done. Well, it's the green zone. Well, if that's a great mindset and I think I'm going to think bigger. How do I spend 80% of my time in the green zone? How does my agency overall grow? And we did a podcast on this, the world's greatest producer recruiting program. Get your current producers producing, get them in the green zone 80% of the time. The agencies that are doing this are seeing a quick bump of at least 25% increased production from the producers. It's amazing.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah. And success leaves clues, as you mentioned. And a few of those things that you mentioned, Roger, I know are part of the future series, some podcasts we're going to do at a deeper level on what are the actual green zone breakthroughs and what are the breakthroughs of the vital few. But just overall, I love the way you expressed it. I mean, and I've told you, Roger, we'll just use the vital few and the 80/20, that there are agencies that you'd worked for for, with, for years and I'll hop on a call or a coaching call or a training session or whatever, and they're still going, "Oh yeah. That 80/20." And it's just the idea of, hey, listen, you've got to maximize things.

Brent Kelly:

One thing that I do want to share, I made some notes as you were talking there. I wrote this down, this goes back to... This certainly is true for producers, but agencies overall. I always ask producers, "Hey, are you planning on getting better in the next five or 10 years?" And of course, they're going to say yes. And I said, "Well, shouldn't your clients get better?" And as simple as that is, it's amazing. They go, "Oh, I have been working with the same type of client for five, 10, 15, 20 years. I've never really expanded that revenue per relationship." Or, "I've never seen myself working on larger accounts," whether it's personal benefits or commercial lines. So I think that's really important.

Brent Kelly:

And the other thing I wrote down, Roger, as you were saying, we say success leaves clues. Like, did you get lucky or did you do something smart that maybe you should do it again? And then the flip of it, I just wrote down in my own words is, "Stop repeating stupid stuff." It's like, oh yeah, hasn't been working, but we're going to give it another shot. Okay. Good luck with that. So again, I appreciate you sharing that.

Brent Kelly:

One more question on this topic that I want to ask you, Roger, and you've already addressed a few of these, so I don't know if you've got something different or you want to expand on something. But what would you say, I want to give give the listeners a takeaway here, what would be one way, or more if you've got that, but try to quantify one way that agency leaders, insurance professionals, producers can start thinking bigger.

Roger Sitkins:

If there were one thing of all the things we talk about, and it's something that I shared with you yesterday that I had an additional breakthrough on. But the ultimate marketing strategy of round out retain and replicate your A and B accounts. All right? And if they would say, and we've, we've talked to us for agency that we worked together on about three and a half years ago, where they went from a 3% to a 9% growth rate in six months because they executed this one thing. And that's the big deal on this too, is stop trying to do a million things. Reduce the number of things you're working on, but actually do them. Don't talk about we can do this, this, this, and this because you won't. And your brain won't allow it. Plus if it weren't for all these clients calling you could stop and implement everything.

Roger Sitkins:

But the ultimate marketing strategy round out, retain and replicate the A's and B's. Well, we know that... And this is, I think, part of everything we talk about, this is the toughest one. It's simple. As we always try, it's a simple approach. It's just not easy. And that's so much of what we do. It's simple. We're going to simplify things down to the proven processes that we know that work. They're just not easy to do because they take the discipline to actually do what you said you're going to do. But in the ultimate marketing strategy, round out, retain and replicate the A's and B's. I don't know if I've already said that 17 times today.

Brent Kelly:

That's all right.

Roger Sitkins:

But you're going to replicate something. As I mentioned earlier, why don't you replicate your A's and B's. But it also hit me that every producer's A's and B's are different. So if I've got our Grande Gringo at over 6 million in commission income, his A's and B's are way bigger than someone else. And we have some great younger producers that have 400,000, 500,000 revenue we work with. Well, start replicating your A's and B's. And as simple as that sounds, people can't do it because they won't have the discipline. So I look at it and say, all right, so I'm an individual producer. The top 20% of my customers are 80% of my revenue.

Roger Sitkins:

Rather than thinking, I've got to be all things to all people, why don't I limit myself to, I'm going to replicate my A's and B's, and that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to raise the bar on my minimum account size, my targeted account size. And like you said earlier about earning bigger accounts. Well, you earn bigger accounts when you get better too. It's not only that your accounts get better, you get better. And something we shared with the group yesterday, again, was that, why don't you outlearn your competition to outearn your competition? And so you're only worth more when you're worth more.

Brent Kelly:

Right.

Roger Sitkins:

So that to me would be the biggest thing is that pick a singular strategy that you're going to follow up to get up. As we refer to them, the simplified proven processes that we know work. And do them, don't partially do them commit to them. What's the best version possible of the ultimate marketing strategy? Now go do it.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah. Well, and you say this all the time, Roger, hey, if you want a raise great, just go take one.

Roger Sitkins:

Yeah.

Brent Kelly:

And it's like, oh, well, what does that mean? It means go get better at your craft and own it. Right? And it's not something that's going to magically happen. But a few things that you said, that I was making notes. There's a lot of different caveats to this. Obviously, depending on whether it's a producer, agency leader, whatever. But I always thought what often separates some of the highest performers that we see, whether it's a producer, again, an agency, holistically. And I'm always like, do they always have more tools? Not necessarily. Do they have more resources? Not necessarily. Do they have a bigger team? Not necessarily. I mean, these could be parts of it. It certainly it doesn't hurt you. But I mean, I know this is going to sound a bit cliche, but the biggest thing is they made a decision.

Roger Sitkins:

Absolutely.

Brent Kelly:

They believed that it was possible. And I know Rog, you probably want to jump on that because you love that idea of decision. But it's just producer camp is the best example. Because I will be talking to two producers and maybe they have very similar structures. Right? I mean, you could find that are different but similar. Go, why is one at a million and one at a hundred thousand? It could be, well, one's been in business longer. Okay. Yeah. But I'm saying, take all that out. No it's because one person decided, this is what I'm going to do. So you're nodding your head. So I'll let you wrap up with that thought.

Roger Sitkins:

Well, absolutely. Thank you. It does come down to a decision. So many times we don't make a decision, which means we're accepting this is where we are. We're done. And that drives me crazy when I see producers do that or agency principles, go, "Well we're doing pretty good." And as we set a thousand times that it's a great business, it's truly a great business, a business where you can become semi successful to the outside world. Again, we've talked about this so much. It looks like you're doing great. Okay. But agency owners are leaving millions and millions and millions of dollars of value on the table. Because right now every a hundred thousand dollars increase in profit is worth 1.2 to, in some cases, 1.6 million of increased value. I mean, that sounds like a good investment to me. That sounds like a good investment.

Roger Sitkins:

So what happens to so many of those that they get to the point of being semi successful. They've got everything they've ever wanted. Everybody in their community thinks they're doing great. They're helping their church. They're helping their community. They're helping their family, whatever. But deep down inside, they know there's a better version of them. And this is maybe one of the biggest clicks ever. It's when they decide. When they say, okay, I got it. I decide. And the core of the word decide is to cut off from everything else. So once you decide, okay, there's a best version possible of me out there. Okay? And once you decide that your agency could be so much better, so much more profitable and you could increase your own wealth by multi millions of dollars a year, why wouldn't you do it? Why wouldn't you do it?

Roger Sitkins:

Well, you don't want it or you don't believe it. Well, number one, believe it, because it's very possible. We see it every day. Now you just have to decide that you're going to commit to become the best version possible and then go do what you said you're going to do.

Brent Kelly:

Yeah. I mean, well that sounds simple, Roger. Well, I mean, part of it is simple. But you would say it's not easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it.

Roger Sitkins:

Oh yeah.

Brent Kelly:

But the truth is they don't. But those that do it go, you know what? I made a great investment in myself, my team for my clients, for my community, I made a decision and I'm grateful that I did. Right? Going back to that definition. So well, Roger, thank you for being part of this podcast. We have seven more clicks that we're going to go through. And in some of those that Roger mentioned, we'll go a little bit deeper in. But I know you as the agency leader, we designed these intentionally on purpose. We want to help you see things differently so that you can go do things differently at a higher level.

Brent Kelly:

And one of the things, Rog, you've heard me say this before, when especially I'm working with agency leaders in a room or at a virtual session is, hey, anybody here need more things to do? I'm looking for more things to do. Well we all laugh about it. No. Find the simple things to do that you're going to go deep and execute upon. And as you're going to hear more from us at Sitkins, we are refining our model in a proven process that makes this as simple for you as possible to execute that best version possible. And you're going to be hearing more about it.

Brent Kelly:

But if you want to reach out to us, we'd love to have a conversation with you and your agency about your best version possible and the best version possible process, that we're going to help you avoid some of the complexity and the challenges that you're facing to find the things that truly work to go deep and go win out in the marketplace. Also as a reminder, the Best Version Possible book that if you're watching the video is behind Roger, that we're very proud of. And again, we're getting great feedback on. We'd love to get this in your hands. Go to sitkins.com/bvp. So sitkins.com/bvp to get your copy today. So Roger, thank you. Thank you to the audience for listening. I wish you all the best in your success.