Are They Not Interested, Or Are You Not Interesting?


Agency leaders and professionals. Have you ever heard this phrase, whether it's someone from your team, a future client that you're trying to bring on, or maybe even a current client that you're working with. Here's the phrase, are you ready? Thanks, but I'm not interested. Thanks, but I'm not interested. Of course you have, if you've tried at all right, to become an influential person in your marketplace or within your team, of course, at some point, whether directly or indirectly, we've all heard some form of the phrase "Thanks, but I'm not interested." On today's Agent Leader podcast, I'm going to share with you the why, the how, and the what to move from not interested to you as a leader or professional in your marketplace, to become interesting, to get more people to buy in, lean in and say yes.

Welcome to the Agent Leader podcast. My name is Brent Kelly, I am your host. Thanks so much for joining me. As always, the purpose of this podcast is to help you, the agency leader, whether you're a producer, whether you're a principal, whether you're a service team leader, if you have influence, you are a leader and want to help you become more educated, to equip you with tools and resources that can help you, and of course, to empower you to become your best version possible. Now, I want to remind you all that the Best Version Possible Fast Track from the Sitkins Group is now live and ready to go. This is a 90-day catalyst program for your entire client-facing team, your producers, your account managers, your sales leaders to finally integrate in common culture and language to help you get the best results possible in the shortest amount of time. And that's over a 90-day period, the Best Version Possible FastTrack.

You can learn more and get your team registered for January of 2024 by going to Now, let's get into the content today about becoming more interesting. Now, I want to share the background of this because there is a story behind what I'm going to be sharing today. And then again, we're going to dive into the why, the how, and the what. Several years ago, I was part of a mentorship program. I still am to this day, a mentorship program on leadership and sales. And there was a number of mentors that you could call into and have conversations with. They may share some ideas, and then they would open up the queue to be able to ask some questions, and they would mentor you on a specific situation, problem or issue that you may be dealing with. And I was a consultant trying to grow my company, get more speaking events, work with more clients just like you and your agency are trying to do today. And I got on the call and I basically asked some form of this question, "how do I grow my business? How do I get more people to say yes? How do I get people to stop saying, Brent, thanks so much, but I'm not interested." And this mentor, his name is Paul Martinelli. He's a fantastic mentor,

Fantastic business leader, has run several multimillion dollar companies and is a great trainer, a great mentor, a great coach, and he said something after all my whining, so to speak, of why won't they do this, and why is this not happening? How can I grow this and all the things that we want to do, and we're trying to grow our business. And he said something very simple and very powerful that shapes the way I think about things today. And I hope I can transform this into your mind as well. He said this, "Brent, are they not interested? Or are you simply not interesting?" And I thought, wow. Now, a few things about that question. Are they not interested or are you not interesting? Number one is it puts the emphasis on who, me, right? The fact that it's very easy for all of us, and I'm raising my hand if you're watching the video, a version of this podcast, but it's very easy for us to blame others.

Again, whether it's direct or indirect. Well, they didn't do this. They don't understand what I really have to offer. They're not smart, whatever it is to say it's their fault. Now, by the way, not every client is a right fit client. I get that not every employee on your team is a right fit employee. So there's aspects of this, but just in general terms, it's easy for us to push this off to someone else. It's not my fault, right? It's their fault or someone else's fault. And so this idea, put it to me, number one, that it's on me. Number two is that I have got to find a way to become more compelling, engaging in the marketplace to get those right fit people that I want to bring into my life or in my business to engage at a higher level. See, here's what I believe the ability to communicate is the number one skill to success specifically in the insurance business.

Now, this has turned a lot of financial type of businesses or white collar type of businesses, right? Because it's how we communicate. Certainly with insurance, there isn't even a tangible product that people are going to take home and play with and feel and look at, right? So to be able to communicate, to be able to listen, to be able to ask questions, to be able to present with a high level is the vital skill for your success. Now, what it gets into is why are we not thinking about this as much as we should? And with the agencies that we work with, we certainly push this and talk about this in different ways and how to be more captivating, captivating, how to be more interesting, how to be more engaging. But when you think about the landscape of insurance producers and professionals and insurance agency leaders, we just kind of think that we either got it or we don't, or we just kind of think that we're going to get a little bit better because, well, I do talk every day, Brent.

So I'm getting better. Maybe depends on what you're practicing. It depends on what you're working on. So let me go through a few areas here. I mentioned I go to the why, the how and the what of this idea of becoming more interesting, but I just want to make sure I start with the why. Because if you don't buy into this, I guess you're probably not going to listen to the rest and you shouldn't listen to the rest of this podcast. But here's something that I believe that communication is one level. It's a starting point, but the best influencers move from communication to connection. They understand that their goal is not to communicate with somebody. Their goal is to connect with somebody. There's a difference communicate to or connect with. So thinking about this is how do I build better connections with people? Because if we have higher level connections, we have higher level influence, and that makes every single thing that you do easier.

One of the things that we focus on, or one of the questions that we ask oftentimes comes from the book, the one thing, what's the one thing? So that by doing it will make everything else easier or maybe even unnecessary. It's a great book. The One Thing book by Gary Keller, what's the one thing, the focusing question, what's the one thing? So that by doing it will make everything else easier or unnecessary? And what's interesting is you think about this, and I was preparing some of the content and some of the discussions we've recently had with our Sitkins Group members, and you think about this is a pretty darn good choice. If I can work on how I communicate, how I better connect, how I have greater influence with people, it would make everything that I do easier. And in some cases, maybe even unnecessary. Presidential historian, Robert Dallek, and you may not know the name, but as a presidential historian, he did a study on what makes successful United States presidents successful.

And I'm certainly not going down the road of politics here. I'm just talking about connection with the people, right? And he's done some studies on this, and he found that there's five things that stand out of successful United States, presidents: vision, consensus building, charisma, pragmatism, and trustworthiness. And I'll say those again. Vision, consensus building, charisma, pragmatism, and trustworthiness. Now, four out of those five are directly tied to high level communication, and I would argue that pragmatism is pretty darn close. Can we be succinct? Do we move things forward, right? As far as the conversations, the meetings, what have you. So you look at this and you have to ask yourself, when I'm communicating, is my vision clear? Am I doing a good job of building consensus? And we're going to talk more about this with some of the skills. Do I have a level of charisma?

Now, I would say charisma is something that you certainly, some people have a higher level, but here's my thought on charisma. There are some people that when they walk into a room, the lights get dimmer. I know that sounds mean, but it's true. The energy goes down. There's some people that walk into a room, lights go up and the energy goes up. That to me is how I, that's my definition. Describe charisma. Again. Pragmatism is getting things done timely. And of course, trustworthiness is pretty straightforward. Did you do what you said you were going to do? Now, here's another reason why this is so important. It does and will separate you in the marketplace. If you're able to communicate at a high level, it will separate you in the marketplace. And one of the things that we talk about at the Sitkins Group all the time is points of differentiation.

And we talk specifically in terms of risk-based ideas, right? Or around benefits, whether it's personal risk benefits or P&C. We get into specifics of this, but let's take it a step higher. Just being able to, and I say just is a big word because you could take this one thing out and it makes that big of a difference. Being able to communicate with influence, with conviction, being able to connect with people is absolutely a differentiator. Just think about relationships and people you've met. There are some times you don't even know why you're having a meeting or why you bought something or you might know why, but there's something that you just like about someone. At a very basic level, no, like and trust. I know I like being around them. I trust them. What they said has been true. There's that it factor when it comes to communications, why it's important.

You become very hard to replace. Now, let's take this a step a little bit deeper on this. When you think about the insurance industry today, there are different ways you can dispense ideas that you want to communicate to someone. There's data and there's information. Let's face it, computers do that way better than humans from just a practical standpoint of data and information, especially with AI. I mean, AI is crazy. It's going to continue to rapidly accelerate. If you're going to play the data information game, you're in deep doodoo. Now, I think you take it a step further and you begin to really understand the subject matter at a deeper level, not just quotes and facts and figures, but you get a deeper knowledge of specific things. And this could be with marketplace stats. This could be around risk management ideas. It could be a lot of different things, but you gain a deeper knowledge within a certain niche, right?

Or industry. But to me, the highest level of what communication can do and should do is that you're able to communicate wisdom. Wisdom being that I can take information and I can take data and I can take these ideas, I can take knowledge. And now, because I can go much deeper and I can connect with emotional components, I'm a human being. And we all know that one thing that computers will never be able to replicate from humans is emotion. And if you don't think you're emotional creatures, you're lying. We all buy from emotion to different levels. We buy ideas, we buy products, we buy service. Things that we do based on emotion. We may justify them intellectually. Certainly we need to be able to do that. But emotion is what drives us. And of course that comes through pain or pleasure. You as a high level communicator can dispense that through wisdom that has deeper pain or pleasure that people can relate to and associate with.

If you don't build your communication skills, you're just like everybody else. Now, here's the good news. The bar's low. Here's the bad news. If you want to become your best version possible, being a high level communicator is essential, and it's idea of what you're going to do. So let's go a bit deeper. That's the big picture of why, but let's get into how, how do you become more interesting, right? As my mentor said to me, are they not interested or are you not interesting? Well, let's talk about how to become more interesting. Of course, I love those old beer commercials, the most interesting man in the world. Those are funny commercials, but we laugh about this. How do you become more interested where you're having a phone call with someone, a zoom meeting, an in-person meeting, right? You're in the marketplace, you're having a conversation, you're at a networking event.

How do you become more interesting where people go versus here's the person I've got to talk to versus I want to talk to this person. I would be interested to talk to this person. Here's the first thing, and this is kind of a bit of play on words, but Dale Carnegie said something very smart. By the way, Dale Carnegie has some great books about becoming a person of influence and all these kinds of things, but here's a quote that he had "to be interesting, be interested. to be interesting, be interested." By the way, if you're not writing anything down, that might be a good one to write down to be interesting, be interested. Well, that may seem really simple, and it is, but most of us really stink at doing it. I know for me, as someone who has a billion ideas in my mind, and we've got that smartphone in our pocket and there's people all around us, it is super, super easy to be distracted, to have a conversation with someone, be thinking about something else, whether that's in a room and we're looking over someone's shoulder across the way we're on the phone, but we're not really on the phone.

We're also checking email. We're on Zoom, but we're looking over here somewhere at our whatever it is, notes for something else, that is not being interested. You're somewhat present, but here's what I believe. The greatest gift you can give another human being in today's noisy, distracted world is your complete time and attention. That's the number one gift you can give someone. I'll tell you what, we experienced this in business. We experience this at home. I'll give you a personal example of this, which is painful to say because it still bothers me and I still struggle with it. To be quite honest. Many years ago now, I say many years ago, I was six, seven years ago sitting at the dinner table with my family. And if you ask me, Brent, on this physical earth, who is the most important thing in your life? I would say my family, because they are, love my family, my wife, 20 plus years my five kiddos.

Incredibly blessed. Yet we can take things for granted that we get to be around a lot. Unfortunately. I remember several years ago, I was sitting at the dinner table. We're all having our dinner. In fact, one of our rules, especially today, is there's no phones anywhere near the table. But this was six years ago. I had a phone in my pocket. I pulled the phone out of my pocket because it was uncomfortable, quite frankly. I put it to the side out of the way. At least I thought, of course, the phone buzzed several minutes into dinner. And what do you think I did? I picked the phone up because it's catches your attention. It's like monkey. See, monkey, grab the phone. There it is. Got it. So I grabbed the phone, I look at it, it wasn't urgent. It wasn't important, the message, but guess what?

I still replied just because, Hey, I get it. Knock it out. My daughter, who was nine years old at the time, pretty smart kid, walked around the table. I didn't even notice her. And as I turned my head, her little puppy dog face said, "daddy, do you think for dinner tonight, we could be the most important thing in your life?" Yeah, that one still stings today, but it's a great reminder if you're not a hundred percent present of where you're at. Not only is that rude, but you are telling the person across the room or on the phone or on the zoom call that I really don't care about you that much. As Dale Carnegie said, "to become interesting, be interested." Be interested in what people are saying and thinking and doing, and be a hundred percent present. Well, what are some barriers? Here's some practical things, and I want you to think about this In your own life, we all have shortcomings.

This isn't easy. It seems like it's easy, but it's not because we're human. There are barriers that prevent us from finding common ground and really being as interested as we should be. Here are three things that jump out. Number one, we assume things too much. I'm sure you've heard the phrase, when you assume something, it makes a what out of you and me, right? We assume things. Now, this often happens whether we're a leader talking to our team, I just assume you thought this. I just assume this was happening. I just assume, I assume, and we often assume incorrectly, we're talking to a future client. Well, I just assume you wanted this coverage. I just assume this was important to you. We never really asked. Number two is arrogance. This kind of goes aligned with assumption, but arrogance is, I have a lot of credentials. I have a lot of experience. I have a lot of knowledge in this area, so I'm just going to tell you what you need to do because I know more than you. And whether we say that, I don't think it's usually malicious, but it does happen and people can feel it. And number three, this one's a pretty simple to follow up on. It's actually what I just talking about is indifferent. Indifference is when you're there, but you're not really there.

I care enough to maybe be here for a few minutes, but I don't really care enough to give you my full time and attention, right? So indifference. So I would just ask yourself, do you ever struggle with any of those in conversations you have when the people that you struggle to connect with? Do I have too much assumption? Maybe I'm displaying some arrogance where I don't realize it. Or maybe I've just been too indifferent, too nonchalant. Here's another thing of how to become more interesting. Prepare. Prepare. Now, I've done entire podcast around preparation and practice. I'm not going to go too deep into this, but I will say this, and this is a bit corny, but preparing is caring. When you show up to a meeting or event, whether you've got an agenda, whether you've got an outline, whether you've said, Hey, listen, in preparation for this meeting, I've done some homework, I've done some research, whatever that is, guess what that says to the other person right away?

Wow, you cared about this meeting. Now, we talked, in fact, just yesterday on a meeting I was part of it was with account managers. We talked about this all the time. The fact that so often that producers come in, in many cases, and this could be on both sides, but there's no agenda and there's not a lot of buy-in in that conversation, and they hadn't really prepared. So it's like, oh, what are we talking about? And immediately that signals this time, this event, this meeting, this conversation is not that important. So here's some things about a preparation. I believe that every opportunity and I would change is I believe that every meeting you have, every conversation deserves your very best. And here's the thing, if it doesn't, don't have the meeting or conversation. Life's too short. But if we're going to set something up, and I know this is a challenge, but let's prepare for it because every opportunity does deserve our very best.

And when we prepare, we can begin to identify before the meeting, what are some of the frustrations? What are the challenges? Maybe who are some common connections that we both know, right? Depends on the conversation. What's the vision? Where are we trying to go? What's the purpose of this conversation? And now specifically, if we get into the producers or those that are out there, soliciting business, preparing is about taking the underwriter's view, understanding the risk-based questions we should be asking, going deeper, having a meeting before the meeting. Are you having that meeting before the meeting, right? So just think about those things. And again, a lot of this comes into, again, how we become more interesting is the idea of first of all, be present. Understand that I've got to be where I'm at. Look for ways where you have common ground issues, and how well are you preparing?

How well are you preparing? Now, let's get a bit more tactical. I could spend an hour or two on this. I'm not, I'll spend about five, 10 minutes and then I'll wrap up this podcast. But I think about what are the skills, what do I need to do specifically to become more interesting? Well, when I think about communication, which I've already talked about, is the number one skill for you as an agency leader, professional, producer, service person, whatever it is, it is the number one skill. What are some things that form communication? Well, there's three areas. It's pretty simple, but let's think about 'em for a second. And let's ask ourselves, how well are we doing in these areas? Number one is asking questions. How good are our questions that we're asking? Of course, some of this comes back to the preparation. Are we preparing to ask the best questions?

For insurance producers in particular, one of the biggest problems they have is that they try to tell people what to think versus asking questions that engage them in deeper conversations. And when someone says to you, that's a great question, I haven't thought about that. No one's ever asked me that before. What do you mean by that? How would that impact me? You've asked a really good question in ways you could do this. First of all, are your questions or closed-ended? Now, there are a few times you need to ask closed ended questions, and this seems like communication one-on-one, and it is. But I'll tell you, I find myself, if I watch my recordings or we do some role plays, that I will find myself asking too many closed ended questions because it's part of habit, right? Do you like your current program? Yes. Are you satisfied with your current agent?

Yes. Do you have any problems? No. Right? I'm just being silly here. But it's true, and it shuts you down and it does not engage, and you certainly are not interesting. Peer-to-peer questions are my favorite. And these kind of go into peer-to-peer risk-based questions, and to me, as if you're having a conversation. Again, this is getting a little bit more into producers having a conversation with a future client. So I do want to take some time because this is important from this aspect of communication. This is also true with agency leaders or anybody you're talking to is ask questions as a peer, not as a pawn, right? Oh, thank you so much. And whatever. No peer to peer. Hey, I'm here to help you. I have some questions that I want to ask you when it comes to an insurance producer, and these are just some lead in questions.

Obviously, this is based upon some of your expertise and specialties and things, the type of people you're working with, again, whether it's P&C or benefits or personal lines. But here's some things to think about. Are you asking questions like this? How do you currently measure your total cost of risk or total cost of benefits? And could you share an example of how that was calculated? That's a question that a peer or professional would ask. By the way, it typically opens up some new files. They go, what do you mean by that? I don't know. We don't do that. Which gives you an advantage. How do you currently determine, blank, blank, blank. What has been the impact of blank, blank, blank, blank? How do you measure how you determine? Again, I think I've used some of those before, but it's the idea of open-ended peer-to-peer questions that are risk-based will open new files, and I've talked about this before, but opening new files is a way that you ask questions that get people to think and consider things that they've never thought and considered before, at least certainly in the terms that you've asked them, right?

So that's a huge important thing. I think above all things, if there's one thing that you should be working on, we'll talk about a practice schedule in a minute, is the art of asking questions, the skill of asking great questions. And of course, the second part of this is you've got to be an active listener. It's one thing to ask a great question and then tell people what you're going to tell them anyway, okay, I checked the box. I ask a good question. Now I'm going to tell you the stuff, and now I'm going to technical barf all over you because I have this list of things that I have to share with you that I learned somewhere or someone told me I had to say. Active listening is about this, and I love this phrase. Are you listening to respond or are you listening to understand? Now, that may seem cliche, but just think about this for a second. Listening to respond is, thanks for telling me something. Now I'm going to respond. Listening to understand is the ability for you to go deeper in that response. Well, I appreciate you sharing that. Help me understand that further, right? Help me go deeper into what you said there, because I think I understand the context, but could you share more about that? Could you tell me more?

And of course, some of the questions I've asked. Well, that's interesting you shared that. What's been the impact? What does that mean? Well, here's a big one too about listening. Great listeners, they clarify really well. Because so often when we listen, and this happens to me, is that when I hear something, I have my own definition of what I just heard, but they may have a different meaning. So clarifying terms is really important. Have you ever had a conversation where you thought what they said meant one thing and what they said meant another? And because of that, you were on divergent paths only to realize that it was never going to work because not because it couldn't have worked, but because you were going a different direction and they were going a different direction. So I'll give you a very basic example. If someone says, "Hey, what do you value most in your insurance program?"

And someone would say, it's really service. It's been about service. And you go, oh, love it. I'm so glad you said that, because our agency has great service. We've been around for like a hundred years. We've got some great people. We've got great service, and we'll help you with all of your service needs. I have no idea what that means to take that same thing and say, service has been most important to us. I appreciate you sharing that. I think of service, there's so many different aspects to service. Could you share what service specifically means to you or what key areas of service have been most impactful or disappointing to you?

Well, it's been this. It's been this. Well, tell me more about that, right? You're getting the idea of the deeper you can go with your questions and active listening, because of course these go together. So asking questions and active listing. And by the way, here's one more thing to consider. There's a great acronym. I read this in the 21 Secrets of Million Dollar Sellers. Hopefully I got the title. I may have it off, but 21 Secrets of Million Dollar Sellers. There's an acronym in one of the chapters called WAIT. Here's something to think about. WAIT. What does wait stand for? Why am I talking, why am I talking? You should be talking about 20%. Again, it depends on the conversation, but at a low amount of time, you should be talking way less than they're talking, and that comes from asking great questions and actively listening to not respond with whatever you're going to say, but with a deeper level of understanding.

And the last thing I would say is this. On this, I just think to summarize what I just mentioned, the best professionals, producers, leaders are insanely curious. I want to know more, right? And of course, it goes into all the other stuff I've already said about this. Here's the last thing, speaking what I'm doing right now, I want to continue to build my ability to speak. I guarantee, and I'm not going to edit this podcast. I've been going now, I don't know, 30 plus minutes with a couple notes. That's not, I mean, some of this, I've said some ums and ahs and gone places. Maybe I didn't want to go, just being very honest. Now, this is very conversational from my heart, and I prepared this stuff, and I've talked about these things. What's my point? My point is I want to look back at something like this in one year and three years and five years and go, wow, I've come a long way. And that doesn't mean that what I do today or what you do today doesn't have value impact. It does. It means that if you don't look back at a year or three years or five years and go, wow, that wasn't as good as it should have been, it means you haven't grown.

So here's a question in general. I was going to say this for the end, but let's just say it now. What is your communication growth plan? What does it look like? What is it, right? I talked about some skills, right? Questions, listening. Now, we're talking about speaking, but here's some things to consider with speaking. Now, this study has been around forever. Some people have argued that the metrics, but I think the overall principle makes sense when it comes to communication and influence. The study said that 7% of influence come from our words, 7% from words, 38% from tonality. Our tone of voice and 55% is our physiology, our body language. Now, right now, I'm doing this on video, so I've got words, I've got my tone of voice, and I've got my physiology, which I'm sure in watching this back could be improved. But let's face it, oftentimes we try to communicate at a very low level. Words, text, email, and there's some part of that. It's okay if it's data, if it's information you're trying to transfer, fine, but let's go at least a tone of voice, of course, which is a phone call. But if we're having a phone call, why? Why not have everyone's on Zoom

Teams, right? Oh, I don't like being on video. Guess what? Without being on video, or certainly when you can't be in person and you're not using video, you're losing 55%, which is called body language. Are you rolling your eyes? Are you shrugging your shoulders? Are you nodding your head? We all do this. It is part of human communication. You need to practice it. You need to get better at it. One of the things I shared to a group at one of our sales meetings, and this isn't about me, but I just want you to think about your professional communication growth plan. I spent about six or seven years doing Toastmasters, and I would show up every other Friday. It was every other Friday, so twice a month at 7:00 AM And when I started doing this, years and years ago, I was probably ahead of some people in communication, but I would stutter.

I would mumble. I would speak way too fast. I still do this, but to be in an encouraging environment where you can work on your craft, transformed my ability to speak. And with producers, with leaders, again, going back to that vital skill of communication. If you're not practicing that, what are you practicing? And of course, a couple of things to think about with practice. Number one, is it not optional? Is it on your calendar? When am I going to practice my communication skills? And of course with it, what are the skills I should communicate? Well, it depends on what your role is and what you're doing. For producers, it could be asking for a referral. It could be being able to introduce yourself in a 30-second commercial to do it really compelling, to be really interesting when you do it to ask for referral. You don't mumble and stumble, to be able to open a conversation in a first meeting or as we call it, the executive briefing.

The purpose of our meeting today is so that I can better understand how you and your company manage risk. I want to share with you our unique process called Risk concierge, and at the end of our meeting today, we can determine if it makes sense for us to move forward. Is that fair enough? Again, that's me spitballing it, but you've got to be practiced at whatever yours is. Find specific areas of communication where you struggle or you know could get better and practice them. That's how you get better. It's about never ending professional development. So that's the thing. If you can't tell, by the way, I'm a bit passionate on this because A, I just know the importance of it. I see people that have grown so much in communication and the people that have grown in communication to become more interesting so you hear less of, "I'm not interested." It wasn't a magic pill, there wasn't a silver bullet. And yes, as you get older and have more conversations, you should gradually get better just because you are doing some form of practice. But what if you really invested in yourself and your team to become a higher level communicator?

How quickly or at least quicker could you rise in your transformation as a leader, professional, salesperson, whatever? It's transformations. Pretty incredible. Now, I said at the beginning of this as an intro that we have introduced at Sitkins, the 90 Day Fast Track, the best version possible Fast Track, and I'll tell you on the Fast Track program, all of our sessions are alive, and they are virtual. So you can do it from your home or your office, but they're live, they're interactive. We have round tables, and we talk a lot about this subject of communication, how to prepare, where to prepare, what to practice, how to get better at things. Empowering sales leaders to be able to communicate with your team of the importance of how to do this, and give you some structure and skills around it. It's 90 days to begin a catalyst to transform your agency.

We know we've seen what happens to agencies when they take that next step. It really is. I know this word is overused, but it's true. It's transformational. It's moving from information to transformation, to build your beliefs, your behaviors, to ultimately impact your results. So go to to learn more about, again, Listen, I hope this podcast, this episode has provided value to you and your agency. If it has, please go on to whatever platform you're listening to and provide a five star review, and we would appreciate it. We're trying to grow this audience because we believe in the message that we're sharing, and we want to help agencies like yours become the best version possible. With that, I wish you all the best in your success. Thanks for listening.


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